Comments on: The Perils of Smart Metering http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/ Security Research, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge Sun, 19 May 2013 19:34:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Martyn Thomas http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-532349 Martyn Thomas Mon, 29 Apr 2013 08:59:51 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-532349 AFAIK, the planned architecture leaves the half-hourly data in the meters and only reports aggregated data in response to a billing request from the supplier. So there would be no "central database". AFAIK, the planned architecture leaves the half-hourly data in the meters and only reports aggregated data in response to a billing request from the supplier. So there would be no “central database”.

]]> By: FatBigot http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-367602 FatBigot Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:43:02 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-367602 Why not simply weight the cost per unit of electricity by the mains frequency? (Explanation of mains frequency here: http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk ) Cost and feed-in tariff could both rise as frequency drops below 50 Hz, indicating high energy demand, and drop as frequency rises above 50 Hz, indicating low energy demand. No centralised database would be required, and a remote off-switch would not be needed either. Appliances could be programmed to respond to the demand as signalled by the mains frequency. Why not simply weight the cost per unit of electricity by the mains frequency? (Explanation of mains frequency here: http://www.dynamicdemand.co.uk )

Cost and feed-in tariff could both rise as frequency drops below 50 Hz, indicating high energy demand, and drop as frequency rises above 50 Hz, indicating low energy demand.

No centralised database would be required, and a remote off-switch would not be needed either. Appliances could be programmed to respond to the demand as signalled by the mains frequency.

]]> By: David Clements http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-355466 David Clements Sun, 21 Oct 2012 05:26:07 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-355466 Interesting piece, I live in the US. and a few years ago the power company for our area changed all meters to smart meters. There is no way to validate their meter readings when some bills are suprisingly large. Before they started this changeover they informed us of the benefits, lower costs, etc., and then they added a special charge to pay for their work and the additional cost of the smart meters Interesting piece, I live in the US. and a few years ago the power company for our area changed all meters to smart meters. There is no way to validate their meter readings when some bills are suprisingly large. Before they started this changeover they informed us of the benefits, lower costs, etc., and then they added a special charge to pay for their work and the additional cost of the smart meters

]]> By: Alex Ashby http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-352463 Alex Ashby Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:10:32 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-352463 IT disaster authourised by leader of opposition, likely to blow up expensively around the time of the next election. The Lib Dems are pro too. Sounds like the world's most expensive political booby trap. IT disaster authourised by leader of opposition, likely to blow up expensively around the time of the next election. The Lib Dems are pro too. Sounds like the world’s most expensive political booby trap.

]]> By: Jeremy Barker http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-339525 Jeremy Barker Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:40:50 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-339525 I has a phone call from British Gas earlier this week saying they would like to replace both my gas and electricity meters with smart meters. I though this was strange because only the gas account is in my name - the electricity account is in my wife's name. When I intimated that I had security concerns they started saying about how the communications were encrypted. After I said that I would need sufficient information so that I could independently verify that the system really was secure the person said they would have to talk to someone else. After a long break they came back on the line and said they would flag me as being uninterested in their trial (this was the first mention of it being a trial) and ended the call. I am actually quite interested in energy management systems and would like to have the information logged by a smart meter available to me. My real objection is the fine granlarity of the information being transmitted to the power companies. I object in principle to them having access to the fine-grained information and would have concerns about any consumption data aggregated over fewer than 14 days being out of my control. I has a phone call from British Gas earlier this week saying they would like to replace both my gas and electricity meters with smart meters. I though this was strange because only the gas account is in my name – the electricity account is in my wife’s name.

When I intimated that I had security concerns they started saying about how the communications were encrypted. After I said that I would need sufficient information so that I could independently verify that the system really was secure the person said they would have to talk to someone else.

After a long break they came back on the line and said they would flag me as being uninterested in their trial (this was the first mention of it being a trial) and ended the call.

I am actually quite interested in energy management systems and would like to have the information logged by a smart meter available to me. My real objection is the fine granlarity of the information being transmitted to the power companies. I object in principle to them having access to the fine-grained information and would have concerns about any consumption data aggregated over fewer than 14 days being out of my control.

]]> By: Nick P http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-338226 Nick P Tue, 18 Sep 2012 16:09:18 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-338226 Are they doing anything along the lines of resilience? In the US, the grid is so fragile and overworked that it can break way too easily. Interesting enough, amid 2012-related fears, NASA looked into what a major solar storm could do if it effectively EMPed portions of our grid. They were looking for big-time dependencies. They found 365 major transformers that, if down at once, could essentially take it all down. Or something like that. So, plenty of our Smart Grid stuff is about both optimization of resources & resiliency. They're trying to reap the benefits of decentralization a bit better. Are the British or any European projects aiming for that? Might make for a more justified investment than "it saves energy." Are they doing anything along the lines of resilience? In the US, the grid is so fragile and overworked that it can break way too easily. Interesting enough, amid 2012-related fears, NASA looked into what a major solar storm could do if it effectively EMPed portions of our grid. They were looking for big-time dependencies. They found 365 major transformers that, if down at once, could essentially take it all down. Or something like that.

So, plenty of our Smart Grid stuff is about both optimization of resources & resiliency. They’re trying to reap the benefits of decentralization a bit better. Are the British or any European projects aiming for that? Might make for a more justified investment than “it saves energy.”

]]> By: PaulH http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-338195 PaulH Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:38:39 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-338195 Thanks. I can see that will be very expensive! Thanks. I can see that will be very expensive!

]]> By: Clive Robinson http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-338193 Clive Robinson Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:31:57 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-338193 The real question is of course, what happens when somebody tries to establish their privacy by "filtering out" or "blocking" the signals. I for one I'm in the process of going off grid as much as possible because energy prices are way way to high (over 100% up on what they should be) and are going to get very very much more expensive to cover the cost of those new Nukes The last and present Gov are so keen on and will cost not just an arm and a leg but most vital organs to build / run / decomission / store for the foreseable future and well beyond. The real question is of course, what happens when somebody tries to establish their privacy by “filtering out” or “blocking” the signals.

I for one I’m in the process of going off grid as much as possible because energy prices are way way to high (over 100% up on what they should be) and are going to get very very much more expensive to cover the cost of those new Nukes The last and present Gov are so keen on and will cost not just an arm and a leg but most vital organs to build / run / decomission / store for the foreseable future and well beyond.

]]> By: Ross Anderson http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-338095 Ross Anderson Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:14:30 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-338095 The DCC is the data communications company – the new central database that is supposed to read everyone's meter ever half hour, and pass on the results to the government (and to any utility that says it's entitled to your data for some reason). The DCC will have to communicate with about 100 million devices; DECC truly believes they can get it built in 18 months. The HAN is the home area network – the mechanism for your appliances to communicate with your controller. The smart metering system is supposed to deliver not just demand reduction but demand response, so people can respond to fluctuations in supply by using power earlier or later. That won't work without automation, which means the HAN, and there's no effective work being done on that. So demand response is not going to happen. The DCC is the data communications company – the new central database that is supposed to read everyone’s meter ever half hour, and pass on the results to the government (and to any utility that says it’s entitled to your data for some reason). The DCC will have to communicate with about 100 million devices; DECC truly believes they can get it built in 18 months. The HAN is the home area network – the mechanism for your appliances to communicate with your controller. The smart metering system is supposed to deliver not just demand reduction but demand response, so people can respond to fluctuations in supply by using power earlier or later. That won’t work without automation, which means the HAN, and there’s no effective work being done on that. So demand response is not going to happen.

]]> By: PaulH http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2012/09/17/the-perils-of-smart-metering/comment-page-1/#comment-338093 PaulH Tue, 18 Sep 2012 09:05:47 +0000 http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=4507#comment-338093 Interesting. What do DCC and HAN stand for? Interesting. What do DCC and HAN stand for?

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