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	<title>Comments on: Placebo bomb detectors</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/</link>
	<description>Security Research, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge</description>
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		<title>By: Markus Kuhn</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-213392</link>
		<dc:creator>Markus Kuhn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-213392</guid>
		<description>Dale W. Murray from Sandia National Laboratories presented a paper &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scribd.com/doc/75518504/Unproven-Screening-Devices-Threaten-the-Lives-of-Police-and-Military&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Unproven screening devices threaten the lives of police and military&lt;/a&gt; at the 2010 IEEE International Carnahan Conference on Security Technology (ICCST), providing more information on the history of these devices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dale W. Murray from Sandia National Laboratories presented a paper <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/75518504/Unproven-Screening-Devices-Threaten-the-Lives-of-Police-and-Military" rel="nofollow">Unproven screening devices threaten the lives of police and military</a> at the 2010 IEEE International Carnahan Conference on Security Technology (ICCST), providing more information on the history of these devices.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-52864</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-52864</guid>
		<description>Another rip-off version, ... this time from Germany ;-)

http://www.hazard-detection.com/

They claim that THEIR device works ... of course ... LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another rip-off version, &#8230; this time from Germany <img src='http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.hazard-detection.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hazard-detection.com/</a></p>
<p>They claim that THEIR device works &#8230; of course &#8230; LOL</p>
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		<title>By: Clive Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-46145</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-46145</guid>
		<description>To answer the question of how come they got away with it is actualy quite easy.

If you assume it was a con from the outset then the customers where &quot;marks&quot;. All usefull &quot;marks&quot; have failings vanity etc etc in much the same way the Emp got his new coat etc.

The simple fact is those who make purchasing choices for Governments usually did not get where they are by being technicaly sophisticated but by playing polotics in one way or another. Surprisingly being effectivly &quot;minor con artists&quot; makes them very suseptable to more acomplished con artists.

As the person running the con you need credability and a handy set of analagies to things people only vaguly understand.

Dowsing is perfect for that virtually everybody has heard of it in one form or another so give it some &quot;Quantum Spin up&quot;, chuck in a few book refrences to the likes of Roger Penrose, Seth Lloyd etc and you have instant scientific credability.

The thing is people want to belive in the super natural be it ESP, Dowsing, Ghosts or Gods.

You just provide a way to channel their belifes...

As for dowsing I keep an open mind and open eye for it. Sadly there is a limited amount of scientific information / investigation so it is at best fringe, which makes for fun reading.

That being said you can spin up a bit of a theory about it,

In essence it is said to be like a &quot;gut reaction&quot; that is a way for the subconcious mind to break through to the contious mind via a bio-feedback mechanisum.

Thus you concentrate on the dowsing rods, which occupies your concious mind whilst your periferal visson keeps feeding your subcontious mind to pattern match etc. This works the same way the hind brain that responds to movment so you &quot;run up a tree before you actualy see danger&quot;.

The argument goes on that people see &quot;subliminal details&quot; that the concious mind filters out. Thus slight differences in crop heights and colour indicating buried objects etc (this later part is true as aerial photography and plant ash spectroscopy have shown if you know how to look then buried objects do effect crops).

The argument goes on that &quot;local knowledge&quot; and &quot;previous experiance&quot; are paramount as they have educated the hind brain etc which patern matches to what it has learnt. The difficult bit is for it to get it&#039;s message across to the concious mind.

You then have the obvious learning asspect you see with people with mechanical items such as push bikes and cars.

Now you can see this effect in progress with a device not to similar in operation to a gold leaf electroscope. what you need is two cupro-nickle spheres with additional rare earth elements. They magneto achostic nature of such spheres makes them susceptable to certain alternating magnetic fields. However they need to be screend from other fields such as alternating preasure waves propergating across the spheres. On method to reduce this effect is to use an organic pouch made of the dermis of certain mamailian creatures.

So if you want to buy a pair of brass balls in a skin ball bag I&#039;m sure I can find you some 8)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer the question of how come they got away with it is actualy quite easy.</p>
<p>If you assume it was a con from the outset then the customers where &#8220;marks&#8221;. All usefull &#8220;marks&#8221; have failings vanity etc etc in much the same way the Emp got his new coat etc.</p>
<p>The simple fact is those who make purchasing choices for Governments usually did not get where they are by being technicaly sophisticated but by playing polotics in one way or another. Surprisingly being effectivly &#8220;minor con artists&#8221; makes them very suseptable to more acomplished con artists.</p>
<p>As the person running the con you need credability and a handy set of analagies to things people only vaguly understand.</p>
<p>Dowsing is perfect for that virtually everybody has heard of it in one form or another so give it some &#8220;Quantum Spin up&#8221;, chuck in a few book refrences to the likes of Roger Penrose, Seth Lloyd etc and you have instant scientific credability.</p>
<p>The thing is people want to belive in the super natural be it ESP, Dowsing, Ghosts or Gods.</p>
<p>You just provide a way to channel their belifes&#8230;</p>
<p>As for dowsing I keep an open mind and open eye for it. Sadly there is a limited amount of scientific information / investigation so it is at best fringe, which makes for fun reading.</p>
<p>That being said you can spin up a bit of a theory about it,</p>
<p>In essence it is said to be like a &#8220;gut reaction&#8221; that is a way for the subconcious mind to break through to the contious mind via a bio-feedback mechanisum.</p>
<p>Thus you concentrate on the dowsing rods, which occupies your concious mind whilst your periferal visson keeps feeding your subcontious mind to pattern match etc. This works the same way the hind brain that responds to movment so you &#8220;run up a tree before you actualy see danger&#8221;.</p>
<p>The argument goes on that people see &#8220;subliminal details&#8221; that the concious mind filters out. Thus slight differences in crop heights and colour indicating buried objects etc (this later part is true as aerial photography and plant ash spectroscopy have shown if you know how to look then buried objects do effect crops).</p>
<p>The argument goes on that &#8220;local knowledge&#8221; and &#8220;previous experiance&#8221; are paramount as they have educated the hind brain etc which patern matches to what it has learnt. The difficult bit is for it to get it&#8217;s message across to the concious mind.</p>
<p>You then have the obvious learning asspect you see with people with mechanical items such as push bikes and cars.</p>
<p>Now you can see this effect in progress with a device not to similar in operation to a gold leaf electroscope. what you need is two cupro-nickle spheres with additional rare earth elements. They magneto achostic nature of such spheres makes them susceptable to certain alternating magnetic fields. However they need to be screend from other fields such as alternating preasure waves propergating across the spheres. On method to reduce this effect is to use an organic pouch made of the dermis of certain mamailian creatures.</p>
<p>So if you want to buy a pair of brass balls in a skin ball bag I&#8217;m sure I can find you some <img src='http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Clive Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-46140</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-46140</guid>
		<description>Steve,

A simple question for you,

Why did you not GDO it and have a look at the power spectrum?

It would have told you immediatly if there where any semiconductor junctions etc attached to the coil.

Also RFID&#039;s generaly show up not just on the resonance but also because they take significant load (to charge their little PSU cap).

Also once upon a time most but not all RFID&#039;s transmited a &quot;blind signal&quot; on sufficient power being available. Such signals are usually seen as modulation on the carrier etc.

Mind you sitting over beakers full of hot solvent might be a fun way to spend an afternoon if you have a fume cupboard. Even more fun if you don&#039;t ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>A simple question for you,</p>
<p>Why did you not GDO it and have a look at the power spectrum?</p>
<p>It would have told you immediatly if there where any semiconductor junctions etc attached to the coil.</p>
<p>Also RFID&#8217;s generaly show up not just on the resonance but also because they take significant load (to charge their little PSU cap).</p>
<p>Also once upon a time most but not all RFID&#8217;s transmited a &#8220;blind signal&#8221; on sufficient power being available. Such signals are usually seen as modulation on the carrier etc.</p>
<p>Mind you sitting over beakers full of hot solvent might be a fun way to spend an afternoon if you have a fume cupboard. Even more fun if you don&#8217;t <img src='http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steven J. Murdoch</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-45995</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven J. Murdoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-45995</guid>
		<description>Readers outside of the UK may be interested in the YouTube version of the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQMwXo1SSVo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Readers outside of the UK may be interested in the YouTube version of the video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQMwXo1SSVo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQMwXo1SSVo</a></p>
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		<title>By: now_here</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-45980</link>
		<dc:creator>now_here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-45980</guid>
		<description>hmm, looks like all their sites are down: 

http://www.ade651.com/
http://www.prosec.com/Adds/ADE_651.mpg
http://www.atscltd.co.uk/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm, looks like all their sites are down: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ade651.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ade651.com/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.prosec.com/Adds/ADE_651.mpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.prosec.com/Adds/ADE_651.mpg</a><br />
<a href="http://www.atscltd.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.atscltd.co.uk/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Bohm</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-45915</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Bohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 16:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-45915</guid>
		<description>This is reminiscent of George De La Warr&#039;s &quot;black box&quot; from the 1950s.  I heard him speak about it, and he was very convincing although no doubt speaking utter tosh.

See www.answers.com/topic/earl-de-la-warr under &quot;Occultism &amp; Parapsychology&quot;.

Not much in the world seems new, especially gullibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is reminiscent of George De La Warr&#8217;s &#8220;black box&#8221; from the 1950s.  I heard him speak about it, and he was very convincing although no doubt speaking utter tosh.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/earl-de-la-warr" rel="nofollow">http://www.answers.com/topic/earl-de-la-warr</a> under &#8220;Occultism &amp; Parapsychology&#8221;.</p>
<p>Not much in the world seems new, especially gullibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Turing's Machine</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-45913</link>
		<dc:creator>Turing's Machine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-45913</guid>
		<description>well done guy&#039;s.

cool i knew i had seen your selves before.

but there still seems to be rubbish float around about that report mainly people seem to think those resonant circuit things are RFID.

any fool pull something like that apart can see it a capacitor.

hell you can even fool those type of security systems with a piece of coiled wire. 

(hehe had some fun with that i can tell yer)

why the arlm bells did start ring when they made a clame about static electrity is beyond on me.

Even someone with basic electronic knollage woul knows how sensitive they are.

what&#039;s more puzzling is why this guy was taken seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well done guy&#8217;s.</p>
<p>cool i knew i had seen your selves before.</p>
<p>but there still seems to be rubbish float around about that report mainly people seem to think those resonant circuit things are RFID.</p>
<p>any fool pull something like that apart can see it a capacitor.</p>
<p>hell you can even fool those type of security systems with a piece of coiled wire. </p>
<p>(hehe had some fun with that i can tell yer)</p>
<p>why the arlm bells did start ring when they made a clame about static electrity is beyond on me.</p>
<p>Even someone with basic electronic knollage woul knows how sensitive they are.</p>
<p>what&#8217;s more puzzling is why this guy was taken seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: gerhard</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-45895</link>
		<dc:creator>gerhard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-45895</guid>
		<description>General in charge seems to have strongly endorsed this device at one stage...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/middleeast/04sensors.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>General in charge seems to have strongly endorsed this device at one stage&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/middleeast/04sensors.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/middleeast/04sensors.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: saar</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2010/01/22/placebo-bomb-detectors/comment-page-1/#comment-45876</link>
		<dc:creator>saar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 17:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/?p=1571#comment-45876</guid>
		<description>The Amazing Randi sets the record straight following McCormick&#039;s arrest... 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/844-randi-responds-to-the-arrest-of-james-mccormick.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/844-randi-responds-to-the-arrest-of-james-mccormick.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Amazing Randi sets the record straight following McCormick&#8217;s arrest&#8230; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/844-randi-responds-to-the-arrest-of-james-mccormick.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/844-randi-responds-to-the-arrest-of-james-mccormick.html</a></p>
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