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	<title>Comments on: Hacking tool guidance finally appears</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/</link>
	<description>Security Research, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:31:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-28488</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-28488</guid>
		<description>I agree with Richard

If you read the full advice you’ll see that a Black Hat style conference might be very well advised to include a session on the requirements of the Computer Misuse Act — and to request that attendees sign a document saying that they will not contravene it.

Figleaf maybe, but training hasn’t been made illegal, it’s just that the Home Office wanted some charges they could use against peripheral players in an eCrime conspiracy and that meant wording that was far too broad for most everyone else’s taste (not that very much eCrime gets prosecuted at all — but that’s a different story).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Richard</p>
<p>If you read the full advice you’ll see that a Black Hat style conference might be very well advised to include a session on the requirements of the Computer Misuse Act — and to request that attendees sign a document saying that they will not contravene it.</p>
<p>Figleaf maybe, but training hasn’t been made illegal, it’s just that the Home Office wanted some charges they could use against peripheral players in an eCrime conspiracy and that meant wording that was far too broad for most everyone else’s taste (not that very much eCrime gets prosecuted at all — but that’s a different story).</p>
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		<title>By: Ikuo Takahashi</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27906</link>
		<dc:creator>Ikuo Takahashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27906</guid>
		<description>Richard san

I&#039;m Ikuo Takahashi, lecturer of Utsunomiya University in Japan and lawyer in practice.

I&#039;m specialised in Cyber Security law and have made some presentations at CyberSecurity Symposium in Japan.

In Japan,the author of P2P software&quot;Winny&quot; was prosecuted and there is disputes about such dual use &quot;articles&quot;.

Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winny

In my opinion,Kaneko&#039;s activity is primarily assisting infringing copyright in this case. However usual security science scholar cannot distinguish the judgment scope.And there is actual chilling effect by ambiguous legal  wording. 

I think the above guidance is  ambiguous and may have chilling effect on security research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard san</p>
<p>I&#8217;m Ikuo Takahashi, lecturer of Utsunomiya University in Japan and lawyer in practice.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m specialised in Cyber Security law and have made some presentations at CyberSecurity Symposium in Japan.</p>
<p>In Japan,the author of P2P software&#8221;Winny&#8221; was prosecuted and there is disputes about such dual use &#8220;articles&#8221;.</p>
<p>Please refer to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winny" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winny</a></p>
<p>In my opinion,Kaneko&#8217;s activity is primarily assisting infringing copyright in this case. However usual security science scholar cannot distinguish the judgment scope.And there is actual chilling effect by ambiguous legal  wording. </p>
<p>I think the above guidance is  ambiguous and may have chilling effect on security research.</p>
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		<title>By: DM, C&#124;EH</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27894</link>
		<dc:creator>DM, C&#124;EH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27894</guid>
		<description>What about such people who hold Certifications like Certified Ethical Hacker, who are given copies of tools *which some of them are illegal under these plans&quot; during the training and are required to sign disclaimers and such.
Are we going to get locked up for owning these tools which I would use to check my system(s) are secure by using the same tactics as Black Hats to ensure that no obvious holes exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about such people who hold Certifications like Certified Ethical Hacker, who are given copies of tools *which some of them are illegal under these plans&#8221; during the training and are required to sign disclaimers and such.<br />
Are we going to get locked up for owning these tools which I would use to check my system(s) are secure by using the same tactics as Black Hats to ensure that no obvious holes exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Lucas</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27585</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Lucas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 02:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27585</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s taken a fortnight but the petition against these provisions to the Computer Misuse act has been approved and can be signed here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/pentest/

To sign the petition you need to be British citizen or an expatriate, in an overseas territory, a Crown dependency or in the British Armed Forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s taken a fortnight but the petition against these provisions to the Computer Misuse act has been approved and can be signed here:</p>
<p><a href="http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/pentest/" rel="nofollow">http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/pentest/</a></p>
<p>To sign the petition you need to be British citizen or an expatriate, in an overseas territory, a Crown dependency or in the British Armed Forces.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27582</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27582</guid>
		<description>With Section 3A(2) it really is a sad day for the open source, free tools community and academic research.

So I write a new improved vulnerability scanner. Can I circulate it around bugtraq for peer review? I doubt it! While I know it will be used responsibly by many people I also know that it will be used by some Bad Guys to find systems they can hack into.

The problem is how to avoid &quot;believing that it is likely to be used to commit an offence&quot;. If we create a tool and circulate it openly it *will* be picked up by someone and used to do bad things. Only the very naive could fail to believe that an openly distributed tool will not be used by the Bad Guys.

In the CPS guidance we see: &lt;I&gt;&quot;what, if any, thought the suspect gave to who would use it; whether for example the article was circulated to a closed and vetted list of IT security professionals or was posted openly&quot;&lt;I&gt;. This seems to imply that posting a tool openly risks a charge under Section 3A.

The outcome seems to be a prohibition on amateurs creating security tools. If you write a tool you will need an infrastructure to control its distribution. Even small outfits will find the administration an impossible burden. Any cottage industry in security tools will have to move off-shore. Will universities want the effort of controlling distribution? Would the University of Oulu shy away from publishing the results of their secure programming research?

If it isn&#039;t corporate it must be bad!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With Section 3A(2) it really is a sad day for the open source, free tools community and academic research.</p>
<p>So I write a new improved vulnerability scanner. Can I circulate it around bugtraq for peer review? I doubt it! While I know it will be used responsibly by many people I also know that it will be used by some Bad Guys to find systems they can hack into.</p>
<p>The problem is how to avoid &#8220;believing that it is likely to be used to commit an offence&#8221;. If we create a tool and circulate it openly it *will* be picked up by someone and used to do bad things. Only the very naive could fail to believe that an openly distributed tool will not be used by the Bad Guys.</p>
<p>In the CPS guidance we see: <i>&#8220;what, if any, thought the suspect gave to who would use it; whether for example the article was circulated to a closed and vetted list of IT security professionals or was posted openly&#8221;</i><i>. This seems to imply that posting a tool openly risks a charge under Section 3A.</p>
<p>The outcome seems to be a prohibition on amateurs creating security tools. If you write a tool you will need an infrastructure to control its distribution. Even small outfits will find the administration an impossible burden. Any cottage industry in security tools will have to move off-shore. Will universities want the effort of controlling distribution? Would the University of Oulu shy away from publishing the results of their secure programming research?</p>
<p>If it isn&#8217;t corporate it must be bad!</i></p>
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		<title>By: Random Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27557</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27557</guid>
		<description>Sorry if my silly questions upset you Richard. I&#039;m an prothestist, not a lawyer. I simply happened across this page whilst reading on security elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry if my silly questions upset you Richard. I&#8217;m an prothestist, not a lawyer. I simply happened across this page whilst reading on security elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Clayton</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27541</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Clayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27541</guid>
		<description>@Random

&lt;i&gt;Would this make the browser supplier liable&lt;/i&gt;

No. Don&#039;t be silly!

&lt;i&gt;Does knowing of or allowing the functionality of the plugins make them liable&lt;/i&gt;

Not under this legislation. Note (once again!) that to commit an offence a software author has to have INTENT.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Random</p>
<p><i>Would this make the browser supplier liable</i></p>
<p>No. Don&#8217;t be silly!</p>
<p><i>Does knowing of or allowing the functionality of the plugins make them liable</i></p>
<p>Not under this legislation. Note (once again!) that to commit an offence a software author has to have INTENT.</p>
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		<title>By: Random Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27540</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27540</guid>
		<description>I assume that most any software downloaded was done so via a browser, at the very least found via a search engine. Would this make the browser supplier liable? Firefox has many plugins available that can be used for dual purpose. Does knowing of or allowing the functionality of the plugins make them liable. 

In summing up, it&#039;s just plain stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume that most any software downloaded was done so via a browser, at the very least found via a search engine. Would this make the browser supplier liable? Firefox has many plugins available that can be used for dual purpose. Does knowing of or allowing the functionality of the plugins make them liable. </p>
<p>In summing up, it&#8217;s just plain stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Barwise</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27537</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Barwise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27537</guid>
		<description>Primarily with reference to Ian and Dom&#039;s comments (30,31), there is of course no way to protect the stupid from the effects of their own stupidity. If you voluntarily declare unlawful intent or wilfully commit a recognised offence you deserve whatever gets thrown at you.

But I don&#039;t think this is the real issue. As has rightly (and several times) been pointed out here, the real problem is the case where a &quot;dual purpose&quot; tool is supplied in good faith for what appears prima facie to be a lawful purpose and is subsequently used unlawfully - a situation over which the supplier has no direct control. I suspect that established principles wrt negligence will be brought to bear in assessing individual cases. However it may prove expedient to restrict distribution - e.g. not just post tools on the open web but require some kind of registration process before they can be obtained -  and to include a EULA containing a &quot;lawful use&quot; clause in the package. Maybe these would be good moves anyway - in any case they are not onerous to implement and could hurt no-one.

It is easy to panic when guidance (and indeed legislation) such as this is put in place, and I myself argued against the supply clause from the start, but in the real world the CPS is very unlikely to suddenly reach out and prosecute thousands of responsible researchers. Neither have the CPS the remit or the resources to trawl the web looking for &quot;suppliers&quot; to prosecute. Some of those who indiscriminately distribute proof of concept code for unpatched vulnerabilities may fall into the net, depending on the perceived resultant exposure. And maybe that&#039;s a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Primarily with reference to Ian and Dom&#8217;s comments (30,31), there is of course no way to protect the stupid from the effects of their own stupidity. If you voluntarily declare unlawful intent or wilfully commit a recognised offence you deserve whatever gets thrown at you.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think this is the real issue. As has rightly (and several times) been pointed out here, the real problem is the case where a &#8220;dual purpose&#8221; tool is supplied in good faith for what appears prima facie to be a lawful purpose and is subsequently used unlawfully &#8211; a situation over which the supplier has no direct control. I suspect that established principles wrt negligence will be brought to bear in assessing individual cases. However it may prove expedient to restrict distribution &#8211; e.g. not just post tools on the open web but require some kind of registration process before they can be obtained &#8211;  and to include a EULA containing a &#8220;lawful use&#8221; clause in the package. Maybe these would be good moves anyway &#8211; in any case they are not onerous to implement and could hurt no-one.</p>
<p>It is easy to panic when guidance (and indeed legislation) such as this is put in place, and I myself argued against the supply clause from the start, but in the real world the CPS is very unlikely to suddenly reach out and prosecute thousands of responsible researchers. Neither have the CPS the remit or the resources to trawl the web looking for &#8220;suppliers&#8221; to prosecute. Some of those who indiscriminately distribute proof of concept code for unpatched vulnerabilities may fall into the net, depending on the perceived resultant exposure. And maybe that&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Clayton</title>
		<link>http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/comment-page-1/#comment-27535</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Clayton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 02:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/12/31/hacking-tool-guidance-finally-appears/#comment-27535</guid>
		<description>@Iain

&lt;i&gt;If I, as a software engineer, write something that the powers that be, dislike this act can be used to stop me with even the threat of prosecution.&lt;/i&gt;

If you write the code then the test is what your intent was. Please note that this article is about the issues that arise around &lt;b&gt;distribution&lt;/b&gt; where the wording does not include intent.

Oh, and there &lt;b&gt;are&lt;/b&gt; laws about selling knives, there is for example an age test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Iain</p>
<p><i>If I, as a software engineer, write something that the powers that be, dislike this act can be used to stop me with even the threat of prosecution.</i></p>
<p>If you write the code then the test is what your intent was. Please note that this article is about the issues that arise around <b>distribution</b> where the wording does not include intent.</p>
<p>Oh, and there <b>are</b> laws about selling knives, there is for example an age test.</p>
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